Ang Richard on Coaching Gen Z, Becoming a LinkedIn Top Voice, and Reimagining the Campus-to-Career Playbook
In Brief: Ang Richard (angrichard.com, linkedin.com/in/angela-richard/), a Gen Z career coach, TEDx speaker, LinkedIn Top Voice, and PhD candidate in higher education, joins host Dan Freehling to examine how Gen Z is navigating a rapidly changing world of work. Angela reflects on shares guidance for early career professionals on handling criticism and staying grounded in impact rather than online noise (03:35). She explores how generational differences in communication styles and values, especially around feedback, work-life balance, and career development, are often misinterpreted as deficiencies rather than differences (06:56). Angela also discusses the current labor market and its disproportionate impact on early career professionals, emphasizing the importance of realistic, data-informed coaching that acknowledges structural barriers alongside individual agency (13:22). The conversation also covers Angela’s approach to LinkedIn as a space for authentic thought leadership, where sharing failures and uncertainty builds trust and community rather than personal branding polish (21:44). Angela shares insights from her doctoral research on the school-to-work transition, sense of belonging, and intersectionality, as well as her work examining how federal workforce policy connects unevenly to community colleges across states (32:07).
Recommended reading: “The Privileged Poor” and “Class Dismissed” by Anthony Abraham Jack, “The Unspoken Rules” by Gorick Ng, “Careers by the People” by Mike Wysocki.
Dan Freehling (00:03):
Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Forward-Looking Leadership. Today I'm honored to be joined by Ang Richard. Ang is a Gen Z career coach, a TEDx speaker, and a LinkedIn top voice who's on a mission to redefine what it means to show up professionally. Ang, thanks so much for joining me on forward-Looking Leadership
Ang Richard (00:22):
Dan, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Dan Freehling (00:26):
My pleasure. Thanks for taking the time. So I want to start off with your comment from Steve, the Florida Isuzu dealer on your LinkedIn about how you're too young to be giving career advice. Why would anyone listen to this? All of that kind of garbage that's out there. What is your advice to other young professionals who are interested in careers in coaching?
Ang Richard (00:45):
So I can just picture Steve's face in my head. I'll never forget that comment. It's one that sticks out to me so much. And granted, I do share a lot online. I share my opinions, I share perspectives. I will share other thought enhancement and leadership in the space. And so I do know that I open myself up to those comments and criticisms and they don't bother me in any way. They make me reflect quite a bit on the world of work dynamics in which we encounter on a regular basis. There is a lot of bias toward Gen Z, showing up in the world of work, right? There is a lot of bias from young people toward senior leadership and supervisors and managers based on certain styles or approaches and ways that they might perceive work-life balance or not and what early career professionals are looking for.
(01:35):
So there's a lot of nuance in the world of work. There are a lot of perceptions that maybe are based in personal experience or greater click bait headlines. But all that to say for folks who are striving to be coaches, who are striving to share their voice online, who are striving to bring about their perspective in an open forum, you may receive comments like Steve's, and that is just something that is par for the course. And it's all in how you handle it. It's all in how you work with it. Anytime I do get some sort of critical or negative comment, I really try to assess what is this based in? Is there something I can learn from this? Is there a good conversation that can come from this? Steve's comment wasn't really too much there to have a good conversation with. If he approached it differently, maybe we would've had some good banter.
(02:37):
I just said right back in his face, who are you too old to be criticizing young professionals? Because it's exactly what that kind of comment was rooted in. Again, for folks who are striving to be coaches, who are seeking to be online, remember that positive feedback that you get. Remember those positive messages that you receive from your clients or folks in your periphery. That DM that you get when someone says your post resonated with them, when people tell you they're glad to have heard your voice, those are the comments that matter. You are helping someone. And even if you just help one person a day or someone's just one person is saying, oh my gosh, that really resonated with me. That is all you need. It really is all you need. And those comments can be really tough to get through, but hopefully you have a network of folks around you who can remind you of how great you are, who can remind you of how much value you can bring. And hopefully those comments get a little bit easier too to deal with.
Dan Freehling (03:35):
Yeah, I love that. Advice fair folks. And I shared the article from even a few years ago, and I'm in the millennial generation for sure, but even a few years ago I was getting that same kind of crap from people of just wait 30 years before you know something about leadership to become a coach. And it's this idea that coaching is you basically turning around and sharing with people all of your leadership wisdom from your entire career. And certainly parts of coaching can be that, but I'm kind of more mentoring than anything. But it's funny,
Ang Richard (04:07):
I've got a whole screenshot folder of those kinds of comments and they can hit really hard. And I always think to myself, did I really say something or did I really share something that was so off putting? And 99% of the time I'm being myself and I never claim that I know more than someone I know more than someone who has 30 years of experience. I likely don't. I am happy with how much I don't know. I'm humbled by that every day. And I'm just always so excited to discover new ways of working, new ways of understanding leadership styles, new ways of thinking about collaboration in the world of work. And I think the more that folks can adapt that I'm excited by what I don't know, rather than feeling really defensive or constricted by that feeling, the happier we'll all be. We can all let our guards down a little bit more. We can relax our shoulders, unc unclench our jaws and just say, you know what? I have something to learn from everybody. I can be open to learn every day. That's a really much more powerful move to make in the world of work.
Dan Freehling (05:05):
That's beautifully said. And I tried to look up the statistics again. I couldn't find them for 2025. I'm not sure if they were in the same report, but even when I wrote that article a few years ago, it was something like 8% of coaches were under the age of 45. And it was like, wow, this is not a good sign for the future of the profession if it is this much skewed. And I think anything that we as coaches can do to welcome in Gen Z coaches now into the profession and really make sure that you feel like this is a career that you can take on, that you can thrive in, all of that is really important to me. And I'm just so glad to see you doing this and stepping into it and being so out there online and on LinkedIn and sharing your thoughts on career, on coaching, on leadership and all of this kind of stuff.
Ang Richard (05:53):
We are grateful for folks like you, Dan, and I think Gen Z, just as a generation coaches are not craving mentorship, craving those examples, those leaders, those folks that they can look to for advice, to challenge them, to help them push back on things, folks like you are what we're looking for and what we need in our work. Again, whether coach coaching or not, whether no matter your occupation. So that's really important. And I'm always so grateful for folks who have been in the role longer than me or have way more years of experience and wisdom when they're able to share that with me. It is such a blessing, it's such a gift, and I can only hope to share it more broadly and share it in a different way or take it from Ang's perspective and give credit where credit is due.
Dan Freehling (06:36):
Thank you so much. That means a lot. Yeah, just keep going without, it's awesome to see. I'm very excited for you.
Ang Richard (06:42):
Well, we'll keep going on LinkedIn. There's nothing there.
Dan Freehling (06:46):
It's so right. So on this kind of Gen Z note, what do you feel is most misunderstood about Gen Z, especially in the working world?
Ang Richard (06:56):
There is a lot that's misunderstood about Gen Z. I think, and there's a couple ways to take this and I'll sharing and experience a story that I am able to tell from this summer. So I went to a conference in San Diego where I got to speak to college age students anywhere from 18 to about 26, 27. It was quite a spectrum, which was amazing, and I was so happy to have that audience. And I did a bit of a twist on my workshop about navigating the intergenerational workforce where I actually asked participants, can you rank yourself in your proficiency with the career readiness competencies? And folks aren't familiar with the career readiness competencies, they're from nace. There are eight career readiness competencies. Don't ask me to name them all right now, but a few examples are professionalism, communication, leadership, critical thinking, equity inclusion, et cetera, et cetera.
(07:49):
So there are eight of those pillars. And basically what those are is it's the feedback from employers that they're expecting early career professionals to be proficient in, to be competent in. And that's in turn what career services is sharing with early career folks, gen Z at this time of these are some of the things that you need in your toolkit to be successful. And so I asked my audience, rank your proficiency here. And what we know from NACE surveys is that the world of work, the managers of Gen Z, they believe Gen Z is really strong at technology and equity and inclusion. Those are kind of the pillars of them, and they rank them very poorly in communication and professionalism, especially critical thinking is also down there as well. Well, when I asked my audience, and granted I'm talking to a group of scholars, some pretty positive motivated young people. But anyway, they ranked their professionalism and communication incredibly high, very, very high, and they ranked their career in self-development. In both of the groups that I had, it was about probably 60 people total career and self-development fell at the bottom
(08:59):
And technology was in the middle. Equity and inclusion is in the middle. And that just told me there is such a disconnect between what employers are perceiving and how Gen Z believes they're showing up in the world of work. It's not as a huge misconception if we have an early career employee who thinks that they're communicating very strongly, very well. And that might look like maybe more direct communication, more often communication requesting feedback. But we have a manager who says, this young employee is not self-sufficient asking for too many follow-ups. They need too much reassurance or feedback like this is a style that I'm not used to. We're operating very parallel, we're not operating together. There's no kind of integration or collaboration there. And so that is one of the bigger misconceptions I think about Gen Z in the world of work, and one that comes up quite a bit is this, where are they falling on career readiness competencies and how are they showing up in the world of work, what Gen Z might perceive as their strengths?
(09:59):
The world of work may not see those in the same way. Another really crucial study out of Susie Welch's research lab at NYU showed employers want Gen Z to want to work for the sake of work. That's a very core value. Gen Z does not have that value. There's more of a work-life balance value. And so again, we're in a era of very different values in the world of work, and I think they're only becoming starker, especially in this very competitive and even less competitive, just sort of a vacuum job market of just nothingness. It's not competitive if we're not even getting emails back, opportunities to interview opportunities to connect with employers. It's just, it's a bottomless empty pit. And so I think there's a lot of these misconceptions that are getting exacerbated by the challenges young people are facing to even make it in the world of work.
(10:54):
Questions about what have I been doing all this time, all these years to be successful and be a positive contributor in our world of work? And I'm not getting anything in return. I'll end with a couple lots of headlines, lots of click bait about Gen Z. I mean, they bring their parents to an interview, they're the most difficult generation to work with. Managers are firing them left and they're adopting terms like micro shifting, career, lily padding, career minimalism. I mean, Dan, we could go on and on and on about all of those. But I think all that to say Gen Z is being very vocal about their values in their own offices and workplaces, but also a little bit more broadly given social media. Maybe it's LinkedIn, maybe it's TikTok, maybe it's even, there's a lot of writing that's happening. And so I just encourage everyone to be very open, be very cognizant of how your individual teams are operating and functioning that may not be representative or conducive to what the headlines are saying. Take care to take stock of your people. And again, just be so open to learning and understanding and growing in a way that might be a little different than you have done before.
Dan Freehling (12:09):
It's again, a beautiful answer on this, and I think it's with all of these generational questions, it's always, every individual is going to be different and not fully representative of the generation and certainly not of the clickbait headline parts of the generation too.
Ang Richard (12:25):
A hundred percent. Yeah. I'm always underscoring, especially to young people or to intergenerational teams. We might use these characterizations to talk about folks, but again, pay attention to who you are supervising, right? Pay attention to who you are working alongside every day because those individual, more one-on-one needs are way more important than whatever some Newsweek article is telling us about the latest Gen Z trend in the workplace. Focus on what matters in your day to day and don't get so caught up in these headlines that are meant to grip you in and are meant to make you sink, maybe think negatively, maybe think positively. Focus on your people who are right next to you every day
Dan Freehling (13:07):
For your Gen Z clients, for students, what are some misconceptions that you think that they're holding that are holding them back from really thriving in careers that you're seeing as a theme, as a pattern, anything like that?
Ang Richard (13:22):
I really feel for my early career clients right now, a lot of the inquiries I get are really around an I can't find a job, I don't know what to do anymore. I feel I've done everything. And it's just a really hard season to work with early career folks. And again, I feel for folks so deeply, it is incredibly challenging to support people who are absolutely doing everything, who have an incredibly tailored resume, who have been reaching out to people who have been showing up, who have been clamoring to get into the room, and there's just nothing there. It is super, super hard. One of the pieces that often comes up in those conversations is Gen Z's sort of, I guess disposition as a professional that they are showing up very well, very, very clearly, very pointedly in a way that would be accepted. And I think they accepted the world of work to be a little bit more accepting of their values orientation and some of the suggestions or ideas or changes that have come kind of as a result of the pandemic when maybe they weren't fully making up the world of work yet.
(14:34):
But things like flexible workplace arrangements a little bit more, I guess humanity from leadership and from teams. And we've seen those traits and those new adoptions in the world of work as a result of the pandemic, not stand the test of time. We're seeing RTOs left and right. We're seeing very serious management leadership, sort of dismissal of entry level candidates in a lot of ways directly through hiring or just not favoring early career folks. That's been a hard thing for Gen Z to stomach, and I think the repercussions are going to see later. It's just this really, really big mistrust, distrust in the world of work. If early career professionals on their baseline, their footing aren't nurtured, aren't supported, aren't given the mentorship or opportunities to learn to grow and to thrive, well, what about when they're at mid-level? I mean, that could have some poor repercussions on the management that we see down the line.
(15:34):
I don't know. It's a lot to kind of think about your early experiences really impact the rest of your career and what's to come. And I have to believe because Gen Z is quite values oriented and is very interested in seeing a world of work that is a little bit different from what we've seen in years past, kind of breaking away from some of those professionalism standards or sort of archaic molds of how the world of work should look. I have to believe there'll be some change, but maybe not without some growing pains of the come up into their careers and how that's been going for them. I think too, there's a lot to be said for, again, just general treatment from the world of work toward young people. There is a lot to be said for different experiences and sort of privileging certain experiences.
(16:31):
I mean, we still see social capital is so important for anybody, but especially our career folks to get that leg up. And we're still seeing this divide in this gap in who gets opportunities, who doesn't get opportunities. That's really hard for folks to stomach as well. I mean, I talk with so many early career folks who maybe had this fellowship at Apple and were also part of this mentoring platform or program and still coming up empty. And I think that's such a hard thing for folks to stomach when you are doing everything a hundred percent. And truthfully, you are, and you're still coming up short. I mean, that's a sinking, devastating feeling, and I see it every day and it's hard. But I'm also, so again, always impressed and motivated and encouraged by today's early career folks. I know that they have so much to offer and I know that their impacts are going to be really strong.
(17:30):
There's just been a lot of struggle, challenge to even get there and to be able to make that impact. So I guess some overall misconceptions, right? Thinking the world of work would be a little bit more welcoming, thinking that going to college and securing this degree or going through this program would set me up to be successful. Having to unpack that and what that means and how to find success, even if the path doesn't look the way we might've thought it would, but I'm really proud of them for bringing in people as much as they can for sharing about these experiences and being transparent. We're only better for that and because of that, and I just hope for some better outcomes in the months and years ahead for young people because really amongst a generation of general anxiety and tension and not so positive looking outlooks on what's to come,
Dan Freehling (18:26):
Yeah, I mean the pandemic and the current labor market are just really crazy to deal with for everyone. I work with a lot of clients in the social sector and it's a lot of the same thing. You'll get people who are super experienced have all the qualifications, meet a job perfectly, have a great resume. We've done all the networking, and there's just 500 people, a thousand people applying for it, and there's nothing you can really do besides keep putting yourself out there and keep showing up in a positive way and trying to
Dan Freehling (18:56):
Figure
Dan Freehling (18:57):
Out where to apply next. But yeah, I feel you on that. It's pretty crazy out there right now. And it can be tough for clients to stay in the game.
Ang Richard (19:05):
It can look really bleak. But something I try to do in my coaching is just be very realistic. I really try not to sugarcoat things. And I know that there is a lot of coaching couched in maybe some toxic positivity or some overly positive methods and conversations, and that is helpful to an extent, but not when we are dealing with a reality that is not able to be treated or approached with that kind of mindset. I mean, we have to get very, very real about the unemployment rate, about job prospects in certain sectors about job applications and how broken those processes are and how volume is such a bigger part of the world of work process and finding an opportunity than it used to be. And so I do try and balance empowerment and agency with what is going on, what is actually happening and what the data is telling us about how the world of work is faring.
Dan Freehling (20:07):
I'm so glad you brought that up. And I always say I have a love-hate relationship with the coaching profession, and that is certainly one of the hate parts of it is this, everything always has to be that positive future orientation, and that's largely true, but there's a healthy dash of reality that needs to be mixed in there, and I'm so glad you're going right for that. I'm bringing in your expertise and the data and all of that into it.
Ang Richard (20:35):
I am happy to. It's something that is really important to me because again, we can only give so much advice or insight or wisdom while turning an eye, not looking at the data, not looking at what the Bureau of Labor statistics is telling us, not looking at what some consulting reports are sharing about workplace values and workplace culture. So I'm glad that you are prioritizing that as well. I think it's super important and can lead to some more uncomfortable conversations, but the ones that are really needed for early career folks to understand what's going on around them,
Dan Freehling (21:09):
And I mean just the very fact of gaining that expertise in what is the current labor market looking like? What is the world of work looking like these days? And I think that's something that coaching as a profession can miss a lot of the time. This idea that the client has all of the answers and there's nothing that a coach could possibly know, and it lets people off the hook for doing the legwork of actually understanding what the reality is now. And it turns into this exercise of just optimism and positivity no matter what. I think that turns a lot of clients off.
Ang Richard (21:40):
Definitely. I couldn't agree more.
Dan Freehling (21:44):
So you're on LinkedIn and really, can I say crushing it on LinkedIn as complicated a relationship as I have with coaching? I think I have probably even more with LinkedIn and how strange this platform could be. How do you approach LinkedIn? What do you think about it? And really how do you think about it differently than the kind of cringey garbage LinkedIn that can be so common?
Ang Richard (22:07):
Without naming names? No. Yes, I love LinkedIn. I think it is an incredible tool and platform. I am so privileged and grateful and just in awe every day that I get to have a voice there and get to express my ideas and share my thoughts and have that little blue bubble next to my name. It is really such an honor. And folks will ask Ang, did you know that you were getting that? How did that happen? I was just as shocked as everybody else in the room was. It was an email in my inbox letting me know that I had a badge to claim and that was that. So it's one of those things that again, I take seriously and I always try and share content that is backed and personal and not fabricated, not stolen, just from straight the source. So LinkedIn, my approach to LinkedIn is again, very authentic and people throw authentic around like a buzzword, but I really do share things that happen in my everyday life that happen in my own world of work journey.
(23:15):
So I share that reflective piece and then I also share data. I share information, I share some thoughts that I have. I share things about career development, world of work, all that good stuff. I share the highs, I share the lows. I had an event in September where no one showed up and I shared about that and I had a real moment of, do I post this? Am I risking my reputation, my credibility, all of these things and I shared it, and I could not have been more overwhelmed by positivity, by positive feedback, by folks sharing similar experiences by dms telling me your posts really helped me. It's hard to see folks fail in public or I don't see that as often. Thank you so much for sharing that. And it's just always a good reminder to be fully you. Social media is a highlight reel.
(24:03):
LinkedIn can definitely serve as a highlight reel, but I also see a lot more realness, a lot more critical perspectives, more hot takes, if you will, more commentary than we might on other socials where imaging and video is the priority. LinkedIn, there's still a dominance in written content, more longer form writing, which I love. And that's why I prioritize LinkedIn because I would much rather write than share some photos or a video. But all that to say, always approach it very authentically from Ang. I do a little bit of content batching. I try to curate some things, share some things, but we'll always leave space for the news article that I see that I need to comment on. Or actually just my post today. I saw a contact in my network share that LinkedIn has limited the personal invite option for non premium users to only three per month
Dan Freehling (25:02):
Really
Ang Richard (25:03):
To send three personalized invites every month.
Dan Freehling (25:06):
Wow.
Ang Richard (25:07):
You do not have a premium. Isn't that absurd? And I messaged him privately, I said, would you mind if I wrote a post about this and credited you? And he said, oh my gosh, go for it, please. I'm like, I'm hoping that folks that I know at LinkedIn, my community manager, whomever can see it and maybe reflect on it and think, what good are we doing by limiting people to only three personalized invites per month? And especially as a coach, when I'm telling my clients who are job searching do not spend on LinkedIn premium, that is not something I want you putting your energy toward right now. And they can't even get that much out of the basic version where we find people we need to connect with when it comes to professional and career development. So like Dan, I've got some beef with LinkedIn, right?
(25:52):
It's one of those things that I unfortunately is becoming more paywall, more privileged, I guess, which feels awful. And I despise that so much. And I do hope that something changes. We shouldn't be limiting number of personalized connection invites to three per month, just a little over one a week or barely one per week. And I also notice I have a premium business account because of LinkedIn. Thanks to LinkedIn, they pay for it because I'm a top voice. I get 300 characters in those little personalized invites. And folks who don't have premium get 200. It's all of these little choices and distinct moves that the platform is making that are going totally contrary to their vision of economic opportunity and empowerment for everybody. It's a hard thing to see. And so will I continue to show up there always a hundred percent. The feed is still free. If you follow me, if you're connected to me, you'll always see my content. I will never pay well content, period. So I will always keep showing up. I'll always keep advocating, and I'll always keep trying to elevate other voices that are doing similar, different really important work for early career folks and just for the greater world of work as a whole.
Dan Freehling (27:13):
It's so well said. And just all the good work you're doing on that. And what I really love about what you're up to is that you're in it, right? You're out there, you're doing things, you're trying, you're failing, you're succeeding and sharing that all. And I think that it's such a distinguisher from the people who are just writing about stuff or making stuff up and trying to say, okay, I've clearly made up this story to your points or something, or I'm sharing some kind of generic thing, or I'm sharing something that feels overly scripted, overly written, and there's some power to really just being you and showing up in that way. And I think more people need to see what you're doing and adopt something like that for them. And it won't be the same as yours, but it'll be their version of that.
Ang Richard (28:03):
I appreciate that. And there is definitely a pretty strong community on LinkedIn that does do, oh, AI regurgitated rewritten AI responses to comments, and they're only on that platform to use third party lead generator tools to buy into their courses or join their community or what have you. And I don't engage with any of that, and I've had so many of those dms over the years, oh my gosh, and come work with us, come be a part of this. Do you want to six times your monthly income and No, no, absolutely not. If you follow me, you connect with me, you are never going to get one of those, hey, in your dms saying, I help coaches do this. Would you be interested? And all that follow up, absolutely not. That is not what I'm about. Warm outbound. If I know you, if I see you, if I see you commenting, liking, whatever, Hey, how's it going?
(28:55):
Thanks for being here. Let me know if there's anything I can do to support you. Simple as that. But yeah, and to that point about LinkedIn, you get to curate whatever you want to see, follow those people whose ideas, whose visions, whose content niches, whose areas are inspiring to you that are going to help you. I follow so many folks who never met before, no idea who they are. I like what they share. They give me something to think about. I follow a ton of AI in the world of work content. I'm not diving into it a ton in my day to day. It's not my top priority, but I want to keep a finger on the pulse of what's going on. So I follow those folks who share about it. Maybe it's written with ai, I don't know. But they share about it and they'll share how companies are pivoting updates in the news that we need to be aware of how early career professionals can stand out with artificial intelligence, how they can leverage those skills, how they can use them in their own career journeys. And that helps me be a better coach. I'm able to share from this person. I can share that person with my client. I can tell them to follow them, can share where I got that info from. It's all relative. It's all cyclical. So make LinkedIn what you want it to be. It doesn't have to be this thing that gets shared on the Reddit thread or Reddit forum, LinkedIn lunatic, right? Yeah. It's not all that. There's so much on there. And you get to create that journey for yourself. Whatever you need it to be,
Dan Freehling (30:21):
It's all right on. I think a big part of it is selectively ignoring the advice that says, you have to do it this way because that leads to the worst kind of content that
Ang Richard (30:31):
Totally
Dan Freehling (30:32):
The AI comments now or just I see them all the time, and it's just, what are you doing? I have so much less respect for people. I see who's posting those, even if otherwise, I would be interested in following them or working with them or anything like that. And it's just this, obviously AI generated comments that doesn't add any real value to the, it's just stop.
Ang Richard (30:54):
I've had a few heartbreaks this year where I see an AI generated comment and then I double take and I go, I know that person. I've had a coffee chat with that person, and I have to go, oh, no. Where have we fallen? What are we doing? And for the love of the game, I get it. I mean, you're busy, you're doing whatnot, but it really does not build the community or the consistency and the dependability that you are hoping it's going to build. Just showing up for the sake of showing up is nothing without depth, without humanity, without emotion tied to it. And folks can sniff out an AI written comment from a mile away. You're not slick
Dan Freehling (31:34):
A hundred percent. And yeah, this long-term trusted relationship building is where I want to be focusing. And it sounds like that's where you want to be focusing too. And it's not going to be the, I don't get any sales from, okay, I saw this post and then I clicked buy or something. It's a long-term game where you're really giving people a lot of value and building these connections, and that's where good stuff comes from.
Ang Richard (31:58):
Absolutely.
Dan Freehling (31:59):
Can we nerd out about your doctoral research? What are you researching? What are you learning? What's been the most surprising stuff for you? I just turned it over to you.
Ang Richard (32:07):
Sure. This is something I don't share a ton about in my content, and I was reflecting on that the other day thinking, should I share more about my PhD journey? And maybe I'll, so yeah, so I am a PhD student. I study higher education at Boston College, and it is an incredible, incredible program. I've had the best time nerding out on a daily basis really diving into incredible literature, incredible scholars, and working in a community of dually motivated, similarly motivated people. So my research focuses on a couple of pillars, a couple areas I can talk about each of them. The foundation of how I got into research was looking at sense of belonging in higher education, big topic, lots written about that. I remember my advisor going, yeah, you're going to need to pin something down there because there's a lot of literature on it. But I started looking at sense of belonging via mission statements, so more of a document analysis, really looking at language at population specific institutions. And women's colleges were the first area that I looked at that. So I have something in publication kind of around document analysis, looking at language, looking at mission statements, and are they communicating belonging? Are they communicating value for the actual students who are attending these institutions for the makeup that is going there? So that's my foundation, my research, sort of where all bubbled from.
(33:37):
And then going a little bit more into my program, obviously I work in career services, I love career development. I love thinking about career development. I am looking at the school to work transition. So I'm thinking about how students are leaving undergrad who are leaving community colleges, two year, four year degrees, how are they transitioning to the world of work? What is that process looking like? So I'm looking at a few things. I am looking at monetary outcomes. We get a lot of that information from first destination surveys, but even more deeply, how is self-efficacy playing a role here? How is my personal beliefs about myself coming through or not in this transition? So I'm looking at that. I'm looking at intersectionality and how that is playing a role in the school to work transition, not a lot of literature using critical perspectives or critical theories, looking at the school to work transition.
(34:27):
So that's a gap that I'm hoping to elevate and draw some attention to. And then I also look at federal workforce policy and connections to community colleges, connections to our higher education systems. So right now I'm looking at the WIOA Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act and how, if at all, if not, it connects to community colleges and how we leverage those systems that are in place to fulfill some of these federal policy goals. So those are my research interests mainly. I do a lot of document analysis, content analysis. I love language, I love words. And next spring I am taking a discourse analysis class, which I am so excited about. I love elevating stories, interviews, case studies as data. It's a very qualitative kind of focus and mixed methods as well. How can we understand a phenomenon that we may extract from someone's personal story or personal narrative? And then is there a way to assess that on a broader, more generalizable level via a quantitative means? So some kind of sequential exploratory approaches to looking at these very intricate, very specific stories, and then how can we generalize them a little bit more? Those are my research interests always happen to talk about them. I'm glad you asked about them.
Dan Freehling (35:54):
Yeah. What are some interesting things you're learning out of these research questions and the research that you're doing? Anything kind of surprising or anything particularly useful?
Ang Richard (36:05):
Yeah, so I mean, there's so much to talk about. I guess one thing that I'll focus on is with the federal workforce policy research, there often are mentioned connections to fulfilling some of those goals with the help of community colleges, but the level statewide is so disparate. So I'm looking at, right now, I'm looking at Iowa, I'm looking at California, I'm looking at North Carolina. In North Carolina specifically, they have 58 community college systems there. Every single one has some sort of embedded WIOA program initiative, something, it's woven into the fabric of each of those institutions. And in my state of Massachusetts, that kind of integration and connection is not present. So there's such a degree of variance going on and looking at these documents, looking at how, again, it's document analysis, it's content analysis, looking at how policy is articulated to describe these connections, the utilization of the presence of very, very different state to state.
(37:17):
And so that gets me thinking more about student experience, student outcomes, how does that go forward? How does that play a role here as well? So that's something that is pulling out, and again, it's hard with research because so much of it is in progress, but definitive conclusion lies with sense of belonging. Everyone needs to feel it. Everyone needs to feel a sense of belonging, how it's articulated and how it's felt. Looks quite different person to person, situation to situation, institution to institution. And I think our career service leaders need to be really intentional about how intersectionality, so how things like race, class, upbringing, religious beliefs, culture, all of these things, gender, sexual orientation, how those all play a very, very intricate role in career development, in positionality, in the world of work, in this transition process from college to career, there's a lot there that needs to be unpacked a little bit more for the sake of supporting the most diverse generation to date, which is generation Z.
Dan Freehling (38:23):
So if you're a career services professional and you're saying, okay, I think this sounds right on, and this sounds really interesting, what is something you could do to become more informed, become more aware of this, kind of bring this into your own practice?
Ang Richard (38:38):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it first starts with taking a look at your own positionality, your own identity. I think a lot of times we're so caught up in our day-to-day, we don't really think about that very often. And once you have a better understanding of yourself and your own positionality, your own place in the world of work, I say place kind of broadly, right? Your specific self-reflective place, but also what the data shows us about the world of work. If you're a woman, you may be heavily filling a lot of entry level to mid-level roles, but senior leadership positions may be less populated by you thinking about women of color. Let's take those two positionalities women, person of color, take those together. Leadership opportunities are even less prevalent for women of color are taking up less seats by women of color. So throwing in all of those things and really taking a hard look at what is my positionality?
(39:34):
How can I better understand students, how can I ask important questions to understand their experience, to support them in a myriad of ways is really, really key. Staying up to date, staying informed. There are a lot of resources. Some of my favorites are Anthony, Abraham, jacks books, the Privileged Poor, talking about first generation college students and then class dismissed. And so looking at these different dimensions of our identity, first generation person of color. But let's say I also went to an affluent high school. How does that match up? Maybe you are a more, I dunno, there's so many things there, but committing to those opportunities to learn about something you're not as familiar with or that is not a part of your own experience or identity makes you a better professional. Every single time you're able to empathize, you're able to ask questions, you're able to begin to understand from the perspective of, I hear you, I see you.
(40:36):
I will never go through this. Or This is not part of my journey or experience, but I understand that it's part of yours and here's how I can help you. So getting started, that commitment to self-reflection, talking about it maybe with some colleagues or folks that you are comfortable with, and finding a webinar to attend, finding a talk by someone who, Neil maybe doesn't look like you, who's sharing about a topic that you've maybe heard about a hundred times, but you're going to get a new perspective. Those are easy small steps and big wins to get started.
Dan Freehling (41:09):
Yeah, no, it's again, really great advice on this and really practical for people to be able to do something with there as well. And obviously a longer term reflective journey in that on the community college thing, this is the first time I'm hearing about this particular issue, honestly, from the student experience. Let's say you're a community college student in North Carolina and you're a community college student in Massachusetts somewhere. I guess, what does the alignment with this federal program look like for you as a student from the student experience, and how does that differ? How does that matter? How does that make a difference?
Ang Richard (41:47):
So you are, when you're participating in A-W-I-O-A program, this could mean anything from displaced worker, adult youth, veteran, or a few classifications and sort of program avenues that you can go through for support. So ideally, you're accessing WIOA services, whether that is a one-stop career center in your area, some other job center or programming that's usually going to lead you to a community college or some kind of educational training. There may be a grant embedded in your state that is saying, we need so many apprentices to support clean energy development and renewable energy in our state. We're going to fund these pathways for folks who are interested to go get that educational training at their college. So typically from the WIOA side, it's starting with someone's unemployed, someone's displaced, someone's in need, accessing those services. And then community college comes in to help support, if you are a student at a community college, and that is your pathway to maybe seeing some of these WIOA services, right?
(42:56):
Maybe there's a specific business or entrepreneurial center in your community college as a result of WIOA legislation, and that's what your state has decided to strategize and enact to support some of these goals. You get access to that too, right? You're probably on a more specific academic pathway, a degree, a plan, something that you've decided or created for yourself, but you're all working together and you're all going to classes alongside each other, maybe accessing similar services. I would hope that there's access across campus to these different services, whether they are WIOA mandated or strategized or created or not. But those are kind of the, I'd say two camps of how those interact at a community college. And community colleges in general, we know are so strapped for services, are so strapped for support. And so WIOA programming and policy can really help strengthen the supports that are enacted and available at community colleges for not just folks who are accessing those WIOA services, but are also part of that campus community.
(44:10):
And when we have more integrated partnerships, let's say a nonprofit and a community college and some other workforce development agency are working together and are channeling a lot of resources at a community college that benefits everyone, that benefits our students, benefits, our local employers, supports our local economy, supports workforce development. It's a win, win, win win. And so that's been really fun to see in these plans too, of how beyond the one-to-one connection, how different agencies and stakeholders are coming together to better support folks who are maybe struggling, who are unemployed, underemployed in the world of work.
Dan Freehling (44:49):
I'm definitely going to look more into this. Thanks for educating me this at a basic level. And yeah, it's fascinating stuff. And again, I'm in this world all the time and I honestly have not dug into this. I've not come across this and oh my gosh, love learning new things like this. This is great.
Ang Richard (45:04):
I'll have just share it with you. I'll definitely please
Dan Freehling (45:06):
Do. Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you so much on the future of higher ed questions. So this is something, I know there's so much thinking about and there's how does AI influence this? How does just the broader trends of, is the return on investment there for a college degree, is that even the right way to be looking at it? All of this kind of stuff. How do you personally see the future of higher ed shaping up?
Ang Richard (45:34):
I mean, there's a lot here, right? Let's start with higher ed, really needing to take a quicker approach to the efficiency movement, to the artificial intelligence movements and trajectories that we're seeing in the world of work, right? Higher ed has never been known for being efficient. That's part of the antithesis of higher education as an institution as a whole. I was actually talking about this last night in a class. How is higher ed responding to the innovations, the efficiencies, and the rapid changes in world of work outcomes for the student experience? How are we pivoting higher education, curriculum, purpose, length, duration, what have you to kind of meet the need of the moment? There's a lot of unknown there. I mean, we have our second largest private employer in the United States, Amazon telling folks Amazon was never designed to be an employer, and they're making 75% of their workforce and their work production automated by 2033.
(46:48):
Whether we like it or not, how positive we want to be or not. These huge fundamental changes to what jobs look like and what jobs are available is coming. And higher education for students, for folks who enter it is usually a means to job career upward, economic mobility, more prosperity, more. It's a future thinking effort. It's a forward looking effort that folks partake in to do something better that they couldn't have had beforehand without that college degree. So that leaves a lot of question. We've had a lot of discourse on what is the ROI of higher ed, and that is something that higher education leaders and employers together really need to think deeply about and understand. Students are taking four years, tens of thousands of dollars in loans. I mean, so much is going into it and not much is coming out of it right now. That's not specific to just some majors. It is across the board that is alarming. That's going to cause a lot of worry for young people. And understandably so. You're seeing your older sibling pour their heart and energy into school and not have a job.
(48:06):
That's hard. That's really hard. And I was saying to my peers last night in class, I'm like, what do we do when 600,000 jobs are off the table? What do those people, what do we do? There's not so much that we can do, and I don't have the answers. We can't shift everyone to be an automation engineer. That's not feasible. That's not practical. And people are trying to reimagine, oh, what is this new world of work looking like? I mean, we need jobs. I mean, people need to make a living. People need to work. That's something that's been true forever. So Dan, it's kind of a philosophical conundrum for me. I really don't know. But I do know that the future of higher ed has to be very responsive, very transparent, and very realistic about how the world of work that they're sending students into is responding to education, to degrees, to experiential learning opportunities. And that is something that we're starting to see a little bit of. I wouldn't be surprised if more institutions have stronger employer partnerships and pipelines that are more named and specific. I wouldn't be surprised if we see maybe some pivoting from the summer internship model to different ways to get students involved at employer partners, but on a more broader level in the years to come. I don't know. And I'm frankly a little bit nervous about it,
Dan Freehling (49:49):
And it's so powerful to hear this from you, Angela, as someone on the kind of front lines of this, of really seeing this in a way's very stark. And I think a lot of people are removed from seeing this so clearly, but you're seeing students graduating and not having opportunity there. And that is alarming. That's something that is going to, it already is in a lot of ways, but it's going to continue to be exacerbated. And I think opening that question of something has to change, what do we do with this is very, very, very interesting to me. And I think something that's going to take a lot, lot of very smart people giving a lot of thought to over time. But even ringing that alarm bell now sounds important.
Ang Richard (50:33):
Yeah, yeah. No, I'm glad that you agree, right? It's a conversation we need to start having, start thinking about again, a little bit more realistically, a little more deeply. We're very quick to be overtly positive and praising. And don't get me wrong, there is AI for good. I mean, there are so many wonderful things that are happening that we can be doing with this new technology and just thinking about higher ed as an evolving system and responding to meet the moment. But it is also incredibly scary when folks don't have jobs. And there is already concerns around, and I was thinking about this in class, technology's evolving higher ed as a system is evolving. Things around us are evolving, but our needs most often remain the same at a baseline. We are very concerned about affordability, food security. Can I live in a home? Do I have an income? Am I healthy? Can I get health insurance? Those things remain a need. And so how do we address those needs and make sure that those needs are met in a system and in a world that is evolving quite rapidly, that may not be taking all those needs into consideration as those technologies, as those systems, as those hierarchies are shifting. Yeah, I was in a pickle in my own head last night. It was like, oh my gosh, it's a lot. It's a to think about.
Dan Freehling (51:58):
Yeah, I mean, there's no easy answer on this, right? But I'm giving this a lot of thought now too, and you're starting to see it show up in our politics and in how the world is right now and all of this stuff that is easy for traditional elites to say, okay, that that's all well ago. But that's not really the point of higher ed, and it's really showing up in a big way, and it's not something that can be glossed over. And I think we're starting to see that, and we'll only see more of that coming to fruition in the world.
Ang Richard (52:31):
I hope so. I look forward to it. Those are going to be some powerful conversations.
Dan Freehling (52:35):
Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned a couple of great books there on intersectionality and first generation college students and all of this kind of stuff. Any other books that have been particularly influential on you that you recommends to others? I'd love to just hear what's on your reading list in this world of career work, all that kind of stuff.
Ang Richard (52:57):
Absolutely. Yes. You can't see them so well, but I've put a few on display. Wonderful over here. Gorg Gangs, the Unspoken Rules. I know Gork personally, I think he is an absolutely incredible intentional career coach and advocate for early career folks. His book, the Unwritten Rules, outlines just about every question you could possibly have about corporate world, world of work at large, how to show up in conversation, what it means when someone asks you to have a quick chat. I mean, literally the basics that, oh, you'd be expected to know, but maybe a first generation student has no idea, or someone who's never been in that environment will just have absolutely no clue on Go Glaze it all out there in a very safe, affirming, straight to the point, very forward thinking way. So I love the unspoken roles by gorg ing
Dan Freehling (53:49):
Amazing.
Ang Richard (53:50):
Yeah. I also have my good friend Mike Wise's book here behind New Careers by the people where he interviewed a hundred professionals across a bunch of different professions and asked them questions about their career. And I think for students, I'm always telling them, have an informational interview. Let's conduct one of those. Let's find someone you can talk to if you need something a little quicker at your fingertips. Careers by the People is a really great resource, and he's coming out with a second book, so that'll be very exciting.
Dan Freehling (54:16):
Cool.
Ang Richard (54:17):
In general, you Connect, which is a virtual career center platform. They have an incredible podcast. I'm not just saying that because I was a guest once, but in general, they have an awesome, awesome podcast about so many career development topics from effective career center leadership to thinking about the world of work more broadly to conversations like We're having incredible, incredible podcast. And the last one I'll talk about is the future of higher education community. Fahe, as we like call it. Fahe is absolutely incredible. It is a community of just over 5,000 folks across ed tech. We've got some founders and entrepreneurs and higher education leaders both on the faculty and staff admin side. Great group of people. I have never been in an active Slack community that actually stays active, but there are news and discussions. People get to ask for things that they need. People will share job opportunities. It's an incredible community. And I'm very lucky to live in Boston where there is a very active chapter.
(55:24):
It's a great place to be with some very deep thinkers. And I don't often go into a room and go, wow, I don't know anything. But I've definitely stepped into some rooms and went, wow, I have a lot to learn from these people. These minds are incredible. They're doing incredibly innovative frontline work to think about how we can leverage the future of technology, artificial intelligence, to meet the needs of the world of work, to meet the needs of education, to meet the needs of the future of work. And I just love being surrounded by folks who are as dedicated to that as we are, right? As other folks that I know are. So those are a few resources that I know and love, but there's a million out there that you can benefit from.
Dan Freehling (56:07):
It's fantastic. So we'll link to all of those in the show notes@compassleadership.com. And you're amazing. You're up to so much good work here. And I think just getting started on some of these big, big questions and I'm just really glad you're doing what you're doing. You're building your practice, you're leading in this space, and can't wait to see what's to come.
Ang Richard (56:26):
Thanks so much for having me and engaging in these conversations with me. I don't get to nerd out over this stuff all the time. So this
Dan Freehling (56:33):
Rare, isn't it?
Ang Richard (56:34):
It's rare. This was really fun. This was so fun.
Dan Freehling (56:36):
So how can people follow along with you? How can they get in touch if they want to work with you or they want to to learn more about what you're up to, any of that kind of thing?
Ang Richard (56:44):
Absolutely. So my website, angrichard.com, you can find my services on there, see examples of events and presentations I've given, and book a call with me, come chat with me. You can also follow me at Early Career Corner on Instagram and TikTok, and if you search Angela Richard on LinkedIn, I should pop up.
Dan Freehling (57:01):
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much again, and it's been a real pleasure.
Ang Richard (57:04):
Thanks for having me, Dan. Till next time.
Dan Freehling (57:07):
Absolutely. Bye
Ang Richard (57:07):
Bye.
