Jack Jarrett on How Talent Acquisition Really Works, Ethical AI for HR, and Why Giving First Pays Off
In Brief: Jack Jarrett (linkedin.com/in/jack-jarrett-97a384a9), an international talent acquisition and HR leader, joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com) to give listeners an inside view on talent acquisition at top organizations. Jack shares how AI is reshaping the talent acquisition lifecycle and human resources overall, including both its efficiencies and its ethical risks. Jack and Dan also explore LinkedIn optimization, networking strategies, trends in the social sector, how to highlight impact in your resume. Finally, Jack offers practical resources for organizations and professionals to stay adaptable and future-ready.
Recommended reading: “Designing Your Life” by Bill Burnett and Dan Evans, “The Squiggly Career” by Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis, and “Dare to Lead” by Brené Brown.
Dan Freehling (00:01):
Welcome to Forward-Looking Leadership, a podcast for visionary leaders building future ready organizations. I'm your host, Dan Freehling. I'm the founder of the coaching and consulting practice, Contempus Leadership, all-in for the social impact leaders you want in charge. I'm honored to be joined today by Jack Jarrett. Jack is an international talent acquisition and HR professional with extensive experience managing and advising on talent acquisition strategy and delivery for world-class organizations across international development, IT tech, finance, public policy, human rights, and education. Jack has been part of it all. Sourcing, candidate attraction and engagement, talent pooling, ATS management, employee value proposition, workforce planning, generative AI and HR, and so much more. Listeners, you're in for an inside lens on talent acquisition at top organizations. Thanks for joining me on Forward-Looking Leadership, Jack.
Jack Jarrett (00:54):
Thanks so much, Dan. I've really enjoyed your previous podcasts and I'm looking forward to the conversations today.
Dan Freehling (00:58):
Really appreciate you taking the time to share all your insights with our listeners. So first, can you walk people through the talent acquisition lifecycle from the organization's perspective? Basically, what are the stages of that? What happens at each stage?
Jack Jarrett (01:11):
Sure, no. Cool. So while the talent acquisition lifecycle has differed, depending on the nature of the organization I've worked at, the lifecycle typically includes workforce planning, sourcing screening, selection, hiring, onboarding, and increasingly retention strategy alignment, so talent development. So for the first stage, workforce planning, we begin by understanding organizational goals and future workforce needs. It's all about aligning talent strategy with the business strategy and as a talent acquisition function, we always want to be seen as a commercial business partner adding value to the business. And we do this firstly by understanding current and future workforce needs and ensuring that our hiring plans align with the organizational strategy. Secondly, we have the attraction employee branding, sourcing stage. This is all about how we tell our story to our story as an employer. So while someone would want to work essentially saying why someone would want to work with us, we focus on shaping and communicating our employee value proposition or EVP, which is just a fancy way of saying what makes us a great place to work.
(02:20):
That includes our culture, values, mission, benefits, and what day-to-day life looks like in the organization. When we get this right, it helps us to attract people who share our values and are excited about the work we do. We also put a heavy emphasis on making sure that our messaging is inclusive so that a wide range of people see themselves reflected in our organization and feel encouraged to apply. Then we've got that sourcing and building diverse talent pools part of the talent acquisition function. So resourcing is where we actively go out and find great candidates. We don't just wait them to come to us. So that means we balance two groups. We have the active candidates, people applying to roles, so browsing job boards or actively looking for new opportunities. Then we have passive candidates. So these are people who aren't job hunting right now, but who have skills or experience we know the business needs.
(03:13):
So we reach out to them directly, often through platforms like LinkedIn to spark their interest. And what's important is that we do this intentionally. We don't just look for the usual profiles. We actively seek out talent from different backgrounds, experiences and perspectives to make our workforce more inclusive and reflective of the world we serve. We then have the screening and selection phase here. We look for both technical competence and value alignment. So we can be structured interviews and equitable assessments as a way of identifying the correct talent. And we then have the hiring stage of the talent acquisition cycle, which is the offer management. So this is always done equitably and competitively and always find that communication clarity is so important here to provide a good candidate experience. We then have the onboarding phase. This is where many organizations in my opinion, drop the ball as a strong onboarding process, reduces the time to productivity of a particular boarding candidate and boosts retention.
(04:14):
So it's not just about paperwork and it logins though of course this is a big part of the onboarding stage. It's a real strategic process that sets the tone for engagement, productivity and retention. And so a strong onboarding experience can improve new hire retention by up to 82% from boost productivity by over 70% according to Glassdoor studies I've been reading recently. But too often I'm finding that the onboarding is treated as a one day event rather than a structured 30 to 90 day journey. The best programs I've seen different organizations I've worked at have include clear role expectations and success metrics, social integration, so like assigning a buddy or a mentor and having those ongoing check-ins. So it's not just in the first week but throughout the first few months. For me it's simple. If you're investing and onboarding and keeping your talent, you need to ensure that you have a strong onboarding process and skipping it costs more than organizations actually realize.
(05:13):
But just to emphasize, at each stage of the talent acquisition cycle, we're looking for fit not just culture fit, but culture add and we are aiming to remove bias and create vanish throughout that process. Then one thing I'm very keen to do at any organization I work at is having a continued evaluation similar to a monitoring and evaluation team, but a continued evaluation and continuous improvement review where we gather feedback from candidates and hiring managers on that talent acquisition experience review metrics. So time to hire quality of hire D&I stats and we adapt strategies based on that data and feedback. So it's an ongoing evolving talent acquisition process.
Dan Freehling (05:53):
What advice would you have for people on how to present on LinkedIn so that they can get seen for this kind of stuff?
Jack Jarrett (06:01):
It's a great question, Dan, and one that I get messaged with a lot saying, oh, can you review my LinkedIn profile and so forth. But I think for me some of the clearest things as an acquisition professional looking at profile is having clear distinct aims in your profile summary. So a brief overview of what your skills are and what you're looking for next. That makes it really clear to the recruiter, this is what I add as well. And then secondly as well in your header as well, highlighting your key experience. So if you're a project manager looking to work in tech startups, it's putting project manager, wine tech as well, so it becomes really clear that this is what this person has experiencing and this is what they're looking for as well. And then while I'm not a big fan of saying having buzzwords in a LinkedIn profile, it's really useful to ensure that the candidates are putting in the correct terms and so forth for the area they're looking to work in.
(06:57):
So if it's a project manager, making sure they highlight the key methodologies they've worked on as well as an area on their CV. And another part that's often overlooked by many people when they're looking at their LinkedIn profile is clearly highlighting the skills you have. So for each position you can highlight the different skills that you've got. So for instance, an international development project manager, you could highlight your project managements, you could highlight project management as a skill highlight m and e and so forth, kind of like project lead, highlight all the different skills under each position because when somebody's looking using the LinkedIn recruiter function, they can search via skills as well. And that's also a way that recruiters identify talent pretty quickly as well. And then also in the current market, it's always really useful to have recommendations from people you've worked with as well that are in a similar area to where you want to go or where you previously worked.
(07:53):
That's just the case as we get many roles that are coming through, we're constantly looking for candidates and we can see they've got recommendations for people they previously worked with and so forth, and they can say they've had really success of the project. That's really useful as well. But one thing I also, I'm personally a big advocate for on a LinkedIn profile is showing impact very quickly. So if you, again, keep using the project manager example, but if you're a project manager working and you've got different development projects, it's really clearly highlighting the impact you've had. So if you've delivered education, delivered education project, quantifying that impact as well because that makes it really clear to see the specific impact you've had as an individual as well. And that's a real key area that I always advise people to do as well. Then you can create a measurable impact, particularly as people are pivoting as well.
(08:45):
Many parts of the private sector and so forth are always looking for that quantifiable impact as well. So that would be something I would advise people to do on their LinkedIn profile. But more broadly on LinkedIn and using LinkedIn, I always advise people to not be static. And what I mean by that, it's not just to simply update their profile and hope somebody's going to find them. If you're interested in a career in a particular avenue, it's making sure that you comment and posts about a particular organization you're interested in working in as this gets you higher up the LinkedIn algorithms in terms of when people are searching and you come up more on recruiter searches and so forth as well. So that would be another area as well and just posting as well regularly. So posting about areas that you find that you find interesting or are relevant to the future to future job you're looking for as well is really useful. Again, getting you up in the LinkedIn algorithms but also showing that you are an expert in that field as well is also really useful.
Dan Freehling (09:41):
All such great tips for people to consider in terms of how to use LinkedIn and update your LinkedIn. Jack, you mentioned the LinkedIn recruiter function. Could you just really basically walk people through what that is, kind of how that works from your side of things?
Jack Jarrett (09:56):
Sure, no, of course. So LinkedIn essentially has two distinct sides. It has the linkedin.com side, which is what we use as kind of like your average user. Then organizations can pay for a LinkedIn recruiter seat. This recruiter seat is a separate function of LinkedIn that allows people with a recruiter seat to search the LinkedIn database essentially of candidates to identify people that match particular skill sets and they use a bullion search function typically to identify candidates. So that's why I was saying when you are using your LinkedIn profile and updating it, it's making sure you update it with the information you want to reflect in terms of the job search you're looking for next so people find you for that type of role. So LinkedIn recruiter is a tool we use to kind of headhunt and identify the passive candidates in the market who might not be looking for a role but have the relevant skill sets demonstrating their LinkedIn profile.
Dan Freehling (10:49):
Again, just so helpful for people to understand that's going on there and then adjust the profile accordingly. And I love this advice to be active on LinkedIn, especially with the organizations you're looking for. And it's interesting to know that that actually moves you up the algorithm too.
Jack Jarrett (11:04):
Absolutely. As well. And on LinkedIn as well, I get a lot of messages saying about this, about how to use LinkedIn for your next job search and so forth as well. And I'm always very much an advocate for giving first. And what I mean by that is putting yourself out there, displaying your skill set and so forth instead of just reaching out to people saying, have you got any jobs? I've applied for this job, can you give me a job? It's much better to be seen as an expert in your field and then reaching out to say a hiring, if you know somebody in the organization, reaching out to them and just saying, you could have a 15 minute coffee chat. It'd be great to discuss your experience and your thoughts on this organization and so forth. And I would really advocate for that as a way of using LinkedIn to find roles as well. So not just a typical, Hey, I want a job at your organization essentially. But really using LinkedIn as that networking tool and actually building relationships with people as well because with LinkedIn I find in the networking side of things, it's a slow process. It's not an instant generally from my experience, not an instant win just by messaging somebody saying, I've applied for a role.
Dan Freehling (12:11):
Yeah, that transactional networking and I'm sure that gets overwhelming and very old fast from the recruiter end of things too.
Jack Jarrett (12:19):
Absolutely.
Dan Freehling (12:20):
So you've been a thought leader and practitioner in the ethical use of AI in organizational improvement, HR and recruitment. What do you see in terms of opportunities and challenges of integrating AI technology into these spaces?
Jack Jarrett (12:32):
That's a fantastic question, Dan. And it's one that for those who know me know, I'm really excited and passionate about this because it's one of the biggest shifts we're going to see in how organizations attract, select and support talent. And I think we're globally at the very early stages of understanding and integrating ai, but I think AI offers incredible potential in HR and recruitment from automating CV screening to natural language processing that can help reduce bias in job descriptions to predictive analytics and workforce planning. And I think that last one, predictive workforce planning is going to be a real game changer, but in terms of the opportunities, I think as I mentioned by efficiency of scale, so for high volume recruitment, AI can reduce the time to high significantly by automating those repetitive tasks such as interview scheduling and even initial assessments, and it can speed up candidate communication.
(13:29):
So I've seen chat bots answer frequently asked questions to candidates throughout their recruitment process and indeed their onboarding process as well. So having that 24 hour, 24/7, I should say, responsiveness to keep candidates engaged across different time zones is really, really useful. And particularly for onboarding as well. When you go in for your first day, you're like, oh, what's the dress code? Or what are the office hours? You can put this into the chat bot and instantly respond. So you can send that message 11 o'clock at night before your first day and you'll get a response as well. So that's great. And according to the SHRM, AI tools can reduce hiring time by up to 30% on latest predictions as well. So I think that's going to be really good. And I think as well the potential bias detection, so AI can flag gender exclusionary language in job ads or identify patterns of bias in historical hiring data.
(14:19):
But just to caveat on that as well is of course only as good as the information it's trained on. But I think if it's trained on the correct data, it can certainly help with the bias detection as well. And as I said before, that personalized candidate experience is massive. I think chatbots guiding candidates throughout the process, answering those frequently ask questions in real time and even recommending roles based on skills or interests. So bringing a level of accessibility and responsiveness that previously wasn't possible, particularly for perhaps those early career roles where we're getting a lot of people messaging as well. So that's some of the opportunities. But the challenges, as I alluded to, AI is only as fair as the data it's trained on. So if you feed it by historical hiring decisions and the data, it will replicate and even perhaps amplify those patterns.
(15:07):
So I know one large technology provider, and I won't obviously name them famously scrapped an AI recruitment tool that downgraded resumes with the word women's in them because of the biased training data had been provided on. So I think that's one area of real caution. Secondly, I think a lack of transparency. So candidates often don't know when AI is being used and how decisions are made or how to contest them as well. So ethical AI usage really requires transparency, explainability and consent, and this is where regulation is catching up. So in the UK we have GDPR and that's also in Europe, and it's requiring bias audits for automated hiring. And transparency in this process isn't soon will become a legal requirement across all hiring processes, at least in UK and the eu. For instance, in the EU we have EU AI acts, and so businesses will need to clearly show how AI is being used in hiring decisions.
(16:04):
So for organizations, this is going to mean more rigorous testing and documenting of processes, keeping data outputs, and being able to explain decisions of challenge. So this is something I've been emphasizing to a lot of organizations I've been working with to be aware of when they're using AI because I think it's a really cool sexy thing to get involved in AI at the moment, but it's really ensuring that there's that transparency there as well. And from a organizational perspective, I always encourage organizations to clearly state that what they view as good use of AI in an application process and also state what they don't see as good use of an AI and application process. So for instance, using AI to research an organization and potential interview questions could be seen as a good use of AI at an organization, but using AI to assist you in answering questions in a live interview is not a good use of ai.
(16:59):
As I've, I've actually seen an interview before. So I'd really encourage organizations putting out there what they view as good and bad use of AI for an application process because without doing that, it doesn't give the candidate much steer as well as to how they should use AI as well. So that's something I would encourage AI encourage organizations to do when using AI as well. But of course that relies on having AI and policy in place in most cases. So most organizations are coming to terms with what an AI policy means for them before they can put that information out there. And I think as well, one of the other risks of AI is that the over reliance and optimization. So I think we risk treating AI outputs as the truth when they should be one input in a broader human led decision making process tech such as AI can in enhance fairness, but it cannot replace judgment, empathy or values.
(17:50):
And that's where AI needs to be used hand in hand with the human touch as well. But for me, the bottom line is AI has massive potential to make hiring more equitable and efficient, but only if we use it intentionally, transparently, and ethically. So I think organizations need to ask when they're reviewing which software to use, who built the tool, what data is it trend on, and how will they monitor its impact on real people, real candidates. I guess this isn't just a tech conversation, it's a values conversation and I really believe HR leaders need to be right in the middle of those conversations when it's happening at an organization. But while I'm talking about the use of ai, I also thought it'd be useful to help to talk about the use of AI for a candidate. So I see a lot of cvs come through that have clearly been written by AI and not in a good way, same structure, same buzzword, same lack of strategy on their CV so to speak.
(18:45):
And also in the same font and color in terms of the headings and the different bits and pieces used. I had two cvs come through from different applicants that were virtually the same. So it was really, really clear other than the name and the other personal details that this had been ran by ai. But when you use AI intention, it's a different story. You can get insights, you can get tailored suggestions, you get clarity before you apply. So I think it can be a really useful tool as a quick way to get early feedback on your application and it only takes a few minutes. So what I mean by that is it can essentially be, AI could be a strong coach to say, apply for this role, don't apply for this role. And candidates can do it by uploading the job description into a large language model of your choice, then uploading your CV and of course removing personal details first. And you can ask it questions like, what are my strengths for this role? Are there any gaps I should be aware of? What should I add or highlight to make this stronger? This will give you insights and we provide candidates with a practical way to use AI as opposed to write me a CV using this job description, for instance.
Dan Freehling (19:47):
Such a great tip for candidates and for organizations too. So using it not to replace the human elements and not to replace the values and ethics and ability to tell your own story and to really put out compelling, why are we hiring for this role? What do we really need here? Or on the candidate side, why would I be a great fit for this role? How does this fit in with what I want to be doing? What value can I bring to the organization? And using AI as a supplement to that and as a tool for that and as a resource for that rather than as a replacement for that.
Jack Jarrett (20:20):
Exactly. Yeah, no, it's there as an enhancer in my opinion. It's not there to do, if that makes sense. And I think it's going to be a really interesting couple of years as organizations and candidates alike really grapple with AI and what it means.
Dan Freehling (20:34):
Absolutely. So currently, where are you seeing AI being used in the hiring process? This sounds like really fascinating stuff and stuff that's coming on all the time. Where do you most recently see this actually being in use?
Jack Jarrett (20:49):
A lot of organizations are in the very early stages of using it and are quite cautious of using ai. So I'm seeing it a lot in reducing the level of admin or those repetitive tasks. So again, it's just, it's using AI to do the interview scheduling, it's using AI to write interview notes and so forth so the hiring team can focus on, there's more value add aspects, so focusing on the questions and so forth. So that's one area I'm seeing a lot of organizations in the early stages using AI as well to enhance and improve their recruitment processes as well. I've seen some organizations already large organizations using AI as kind of set before to as chat bots, and I think it's awesome VI to answer those frequently asked questions and the candidates have in instant time because sometimes you might be a bit embarrassing to message a hiring manager about a certain question where if you can just ask an AI and it can come back with generic response at any time, I think that's really useful.
(21:44):
So there's a lot of areas I'm seeing organizations use AI of course. I think with the issues on the bias detection side, I've seen some organizations look to buy some AI software to help them with their job badge and so forth. And then I've seen some organizations take it away because they were cautious that the data had been trained on, hadn't may have had some bias in it as well. But I think on the workforce analytics as well, I've seen organizations use it to help support future hiring trends and so forth. Again, training on organizations data, but using it to predict where they see the future hiring needs based on previous hiring metrics and also based on future hiring goals, but being fed with all the correct information, it can be really useful to help teams proactively start to talent pool the future business objectives. So those are some of the key areas I've seen it be used and be used successfully as well. There are also where they going to more of skills-based hiring for many organizations as opposed to just typically there's the CV and so forth. There are some providers that are pushing different AI assessment tools, so using AI to do gamification skills assessments and so forth, which is really interesting and so forth. I think that's an area that's going to grow as we go further through the decade, but those are just some of the areas.
Dan Freehling (23:04):
Yeah, fascinating to hear on all of that. I'm hearing from candidates a lot about questions around the applicant tracking system, the mythical ATS.
Jack Jarrett (23:13):
Yeah.
Dan Freehling (23:15):
How does that really work from the backend, from what you've seen and how much emphasis, if any, do you think people should put on trying to beat that or game that in any way?
Jack Jarrett (23:25):
It's such a good question, Dan, and to be honest with you, I think every grad fair I go to, every career event I go to, this is one of the questions I get. It's kind of like that gamification of the As, but I think the first thing I always say is applicant tracking systems or ATSs are not the enemy. Despite what some job boards or TikTok tips might most ATSs are not these robotic gatekeepers that are rejecting your resume because you didn't use the right fonts. In reality, ATSs are primary workflow tools. They help recruiters and hiring teams to manage, to manage track of applicants, communicate internally about candidates scheduling interviews and stay compliant with different hiring processes. Yes, they do pass resumes and allow recruiters to search by keywords or filters, but in most roles, especially mid to senior roles for instance, recruiters are still manually reviewing resumes.
(24:18):
I think as Spencer Campbell has said previously in one of your podcasts recordings as well, the cvs are still very much being reviewed by an applications via a member of the hiring team as well, at least in the instances I've seen, whether it be organizations I've worked for or organizations I've consulted with. So the idea of beating the a ATS is a bit of a myth, but for me what really matters instead of having that mindset of I need to beat the a ATS, is having clarity and structure in your application. So in your CV, using a clean simple layout, avoid graphics or overly style templates that can often confuse the passing system. So your CV will, it can look amazing when you write it and download it and send it, but when it gets fed through the a s, the graphics can really confuse it and it comes out all blurry or you can't read at all, which I think is a real shame because often you can lose a lot of candidates to that, but it can also, keyword alignment is important.
(25:17):
That doesn't just mean stuffing your resume making with the key words you see going through. So really read the job description, reflect relevant language naturally. If all ask for stakeholder and goal engagement, make sure that phrase appears in your cv if it's generally true. I had one CV I read a while back that just had lots of keywords taken to the job description, just copied and pasted throughout the cv and it didn't even make sense why it was in there, but I could see that the candidate was trying to use it as a way to beef up there their way up the or current game, the A TS and just on that as well. So try and avoid gimmicks like white text hidden keywords or copying entire job ads into your resume. Recruiters can see and hiring teams can see straight through that and it can really hurt your credibility as well.
(26:04):
So what really works for me is tailor your resume to each job. This doesn't mean rewriting it every time with tweak the summary, adjust your phrasing and highlight relevant achievements a bit like I said on LinkedIn, really highlighting those quantifiable achievements relevant to the opportunity. And then what I mean by that as well, just focus on outcomes, not just responsibilities. So I see a lot of CVs say manage social media, which is great, but what I really want to see is what impact did that have? So you could say managing social media increased engagement by 40% through target campaigns. So really showing that because hiring teams want to see that you've been there and done it and that you've had impact. And by doing that you can show that. And if the ATS flags you is a good match, great, but even if it doesn't, a recruiter can and often will review your application based on your relevance as well.
(26:52):
And as I said, I think Spencer said before, most of the time the CVs are being reviewed by a person all the times in the case of the organizations I've worked at. And one last tip on this as well is that a strong resume is essential, but a referral or a well-timed note to a recruiter or hiring manager can help ensure your application gets reviewed and stand out. So I think adding in more hearing about networking, so having more open-ended conversations about the job that is the right, is it the right fit view will really help you stand out as well. So I think what I'm sorry is spending more time on the networking side of things, having open-ended conversations and reaching out to people and building those natural relationships really are kind of the key things to do. And I think areas that people need to spend more time on, I think this is an area which really matters as opposed to just being isolated on that application,
Dan Freehling (27:47):
Not just from Spencer, not just from me. So keep it clean, write for humans, highlight your impact, tailor it to the kind of job you're going for. And don't worry so much about the ATS, it will either get through the ATS or some recruiter will see it if you're not at these kind of cattle call roles where they're just looking for very generic people.
Jack Jarrett (28:07):
Exactly, exactly.
Dan Freehling (28:09):
You mentioned the showing impact on the resume. I'd love to get into that more with you. And a question I hear from people a lot is, my impact isn't easily measurable. I can't say 40% increase in this. What do you advise for people in that kind of a situation? How do you show impact when it's not something that has a tangible metric?
Jack Jarrett (28:31):
That's a really good question, and it's one that I was helping a friend with recently when they were applying for a new role. So they said they couldn't quantifiably show for instance, that they had done much in their role exactly as you were saying as well. So one thing that we did is we just sat down just, we just had a table and we looked at, this was my job, what did it achieve? So quite often you can just talk to the qualitative impacts as well, but one thing I would always encourage candidates to do throughout their employment at any organization is to have an Excel spreadsheet listing key wins. So you list the key impacts as you go. So for instance, supported X, Y, Z on this project and these were some of the key things that were successes. So it's highlight, and then you kind of track that as you're going through your working life in this role.
(29:19):
Then when it comes to applying for a role, you've got all this instant need to copy and paste and put in if you haven't got any quantifiable metrics or so forth, but you can turn it as successes and list it in that way. If an organization, for instance, isn't tracking the quantifiable data, which is quite often the case, so you have to think about what was the success of it as well, if you recommendations or any kind of positive feedback from clients, from internal clients, you can highlight that as well. So it was deemed success because X, Y, Z, and it was highlighted by key users as being really useful or whatever it might be. So just to recap one, it would be, I would advise candidates to always monitor their successes and track their successes each week, sit down on an Excel spreadsheet and log the successes you've had as well because you can refer back to those when you're applying for roles as well. And also it's just good for mental health as well to know that you are constantly having an impact in an organization as well. And then it's thinking about, if you can't phrase it in a quantifiable sense, you can say about the successes, how it improves something, any positive feedback you received as well. But it's certainly a tough one when you haven't got those typical quantifiable data points to or refer to.
Dan Freehling (30:29):
Thinking of it in terms of successes is really useful I think for folks because sometimes they can get tripped up in the, I need to show this in the most business way possible. And just even taking it back a step of what were your successes, what were your wins, and then how do we showcase those? And sometimes when you probe on it a bit, there are quantifiable parts to this and sometimes there aren't, but even pulling it out of that, okay, I don't know how to start with this into, okay, what were your successes? What were your wins with this?
Jack Jarrett (30:58):
Yeah, exactly that. And you can show that the success is contributed to organizational objectives as well. So whatever that might be, if you really contributed towards that, you can highlight that in your cv, which really shows that you are very centered on business success as well, not just focused on your position and the success, but how it contribute towards the overall business success as well. And that's a conversation I seem to have a lot with the candidates or friends or so forth that are working for early stage startups, working for not-for-profits that perhaps don't have the systems set up to measure quantifiable success as well. So it is definitely an area that I can understand a lot of candidates struggle with.
Dan Freehling (31:39):
So useful and really great to be able to tie it to the organizational strategy and goals and all of that kind of stuff. It's just really listen to this folks and get beyond just saying what you did in terms of responsibilities and moving toward. So what was the impact? How did this connect to the organization? Everything that Jack is saying here.
Jack Jarrett (31:57):
Yeah, exactly. Because showing your business impact or organizational impact, which is what we're looking for every candidate to do to come in and have an impact on the organization. So if you can show you are looking at your success within the wider business context and so forth is really useful because at the end of the day, that's what we're hiring people to do, but sometimes somebody can stay siloed into the success they have within their business unit, but looking more broadly how it impacted the wider businesses, I always encourage people to do because it shows that you are thinking at that level as well, not just the level of your role,
Dan Freehling (32:26):
Such a great advice and showing that you're having this executive mindset and going beyond just your particular role. So again, just really, really great advice and highly encourage people to listen to this.
Jack Jarrett (32:37):
Yeah, no, exactly. And one thing as well, I've noticed when people do this, it kind of really comes across to me and they see they're a team player. It's not just my impacts or this and so forth, but my impacts are this which help contribute towards the wider business goals. So it really helps to emphasize that and that mindset to a hiring team as well.
Dan Freehling (32:55):
Again, just really, really great advice there. So Chuck, what are you seeing in terms of broad trends for the social sector? I know it's in a moment of turmoil and drastic change right now. What are you seeing in terms of trends, in terms of organizations who's hiring, who has funding still where people should be looking, anything like that?
Jack Jarrett (33:14):
It's just, I totally agree with you overall it is a tough job market out there and there are so many strong candidates who have incredible experience that can be applied to so many different organizations as well. So I think people really need to know that they have great experience and that the right job will be out there for them. I appreciate the market is tough at the moment, but there are a few areas that are really growing. So climate adaption resilience is huge right now, especially roles tied to this sustainability, disaster risk reduction in green financing. Also, organizations are looking more at localization within the sector from what I can see. So skills in working with local partners, capacity building, locally led development are becoming more valuable. Digital skills are another big one. So things like data analytics, digital health and AI literacy are starting to show up more and more in job descriptions I've seen recently as well.
(34:05):
So making sure you understand how to use an AI is a software to improve your work as well. I'm seeing that come up in a few job descriptions, which I hadn't seen before in the sector. And finally, soft skills like adaptability, cross sector collaboration and being able to navigate uncertainty at the moment are hugely valued right now. So employees are looking for people who can wear those multiple hats and drive impact even in these fast changing environments, but specifically tangibly on alternative pathways and the skills and roles that people could apply for. I've been getting a few messages about this, but obviously philanthropic and foundations we're seeing pick up a lot of the weight right now so we can see an increased growth from these areas. So I would recommend, as I know it's been recommended, another podcast as well just to follow the funding.
(34:53):
You can see who's providing the largest amount of funding and then the job opportunities rising there from there. So private foundations are growing, if so, those skills in grant making financing impact evaluation and stakeholder engagement are highly transferable and highly wanted within those areas as well. Another area being impact investing in social enterprise. So the rise of blended finance has created demand for development professionals. So roles like impact investment analysis, social enterprise management, business development specialists could be strong fits to this sector as well. And I've seen opportunities obviously within policy and think tanks and some governance as well. So development expertise and governance, public policy, regulatory framework is really valuable here. And also those skills like business development, project management, private sector engagement are also in demand. And then another area, particularly perhaps the European side is seeing that sustainability and climate change. This is a rapidly expanding sector including ESG, climate policy, climate finance, renewable energy.
(35:55):
So I think a lot of development professionals, global policies take from engagement and impact measurement, find opportunities there as well. But it is a challenging market and it's certainly requiring candidates to be proactive in their search in terms of looking at where the funding's coming from, building relationships through discussions on LinkedIn and the networking with people in those kind of areas to get you in front as well. But it is certain challenging and people shouldn't feel on their own or feel it's a personal reflection of them. It's a challenging market, but hoping we're going to start to see things improve.
Dan Freehling (36:32):
I double down on the challenging market and not viewing this as a personal reflection. I think it's a very important point there and thanks for the specificity on these different sub-sectors that you're seeing growing. And just from my experience working with different job seekers, I would totally agree with that. I think these are all areas to look at and really consider, especially as the funding shifts away from the big donor led development into these other adjacent areas, it's looking at these and really investigating them. And Jack mentioned doing the networking as a way to investigate these and I think that's spot on. And Jack actually on that point, how would you approach going about this networking to learn about these different areas?
Jack Jarrett (37:14):
It's a really good point and I think networking is a real changing and ever evolving area as well. I think a lot of people still see networking as transferring the business card to somebody else and keeping that business card, but obviously the world's changed so much. So for networking, for me, I'm really about give first. So posting a lot about the areas you're interested in on LinkedIn or whatever site it is, having a blogger, et cetera, really highlighting your interest and expertise there and then reaching out to people in the relevant organizations that you would want to work in, but not just saying, Hey, as I said before, have you got a job but hey, I really enjoyed reading a piece about your work here. Would you be open to discussing it as well? So building those relationships as well or hey, how have you enjoyed working this organization?
(38:00):
Could I have a 15 minute chat? Those are areas are really, really vital networking. And another thing is I see I've had a few people reach out to me and say, I've been networking for a couple of weeks now and I haven't had any job offers yet. And it's just explaining that networking is a long game. It's not an instant transaction in most cases it's building up relationships with people so you can rely on those and be first through the door when opportunities arise. And it shouldn't just be something networking you're doing when you're looking for a job. I would always advise people to be networking all the time to learn from different people from having different conversations as well. Really building those human connections as well as opposed to it just being transactional as well has been really important. And when I've been helping friends who've unfortunately lost their jobs in the sector as well, I've really advised them just to build up relationships with people as well and give stuff which didn't, if I'm honest lead to jobs straight away.
(38:57):
But now I'm starting to see friends pick up jobs based on the conversations they've had with people back in January, February time, just discussing their joint interest of a particular paper that they read that somebody had written an organization and so forth. So those have been the real success stories in my side. But yeah, just to emphasize, I think a lot of people are learning now. Networking should be something that be done all the time. It shouldn't be something that's done simply when you're looking for a job because it becomes very transactional then. And I don't think that leads to the best outcomes
Dan Freehling (39:28):
And even removing that transactional expectation from any kind of networking and if you're trying to do this more give first networking, but you still want that quick transaction that comes through to people and that will pull you out of the game of doing this over the long term. And I think it's really astute to point that out, Jack.
Jack Jarrett (39:50):
Yeah, no, absolutely. Just I see it. I often get a lot of generic messages, hi, I'd love to role at this organization. It just comes across so transactional and it doesn't put you at the top of the pile though I think some people seem to think it does. It's networking is something you've got to put a lot of conscious effort and thought into, get the real results, you get out what you put into networking. It shouldn't be an afterthought that you do that you do just try and find a role.
Dan Freehling (40:14):
Absolutely, absolutely. So in terms of longer term trends for social impact, the social sector, what kinds of things are you thinking in terms of that? A
Jack Jarrett (40:23):
Lot of the organizations I have well for or with seeing a lot on digital transformation. So I think we're going to see a lot of NGOs and other organizations looking to build new talent capabilities around tech data and communication through those digital transformation piece as well. So that's one area that I'm always conscious I need to upskill in and something I'm encouraging others to do as well to build your experience in that digital transformation side because that's where the future's heading. So whether that be AI skills, et cetera, as an enabler to support people for organizations. So essentially, yeah, digital transformation is going to be one key area and also seeing a lot more localization of leadership, so more investment in leadership in the global south and less centralization in HQs is another area as well. And I'm starting to see quite a few sustainability and climate roles come through and I think it's just going to increase more in the development sector, particularly in the European side where I'm based. I'm starting to see a lot more of those roles come through as well. And those partnership models meaning new roles and skills in co-creation, innovation and systems thinking are going to start to come out more and more now. So I think ultimately the sectors is evolving to be more agile and accountable to the communities it's serving. So that's some of the key areas I'm seeing as well. But
Dan Freehling (41:40):
Yeah, it's all part of this, I've been calling it the new social sector that we're seeing shape up and I think this is all part and parcel of that. And on the upskilling in this digital transformation, these AI skills, I know you're personally really up on this stuff. I would love to hear what you're personally doing to upskill yourself in this area.
Jack Jarrett (42:01):
Traditionally I've been using chat GBT, like a lot of people to support me, but I've been doing a lot of training on using Microsoft copilot now to support my everyday tasks. So I'm making a conscious of it to help me use the copilot and so forth and functionality to write those meeting notes and so forth instead of relying on me writing it down so I can really get engrossed in the conversation. And whilst I'm finding it needs a bit of editing, I'm finding that I'm finding that it's really useful supporting me there. And then another piece as well is just if I'm reading a really long document is getting AI to help me to summarize those different bits and pieces. But one key area I would recommend everyone to really try and upskill in regardless of what sector, what area you work in is prompting.
(42:49):
So prompting is the information you provide to a chat GBT for instance. So really investing time to develop your prompts will mean you get better outputs as well. So it's really upskilling and developing your prompting skills is going to be really key I think going forward to improve your AI literacy and also your effectiveness in using AI to support your work as well. And another area for me is I'm always big on impact. I always want to be able to show the impact that team I've worked in has and so forth. So I'm using AI to kind support me in developing graphs of graphics as well very quickly that I can put forward to different members of staff to prove the impact of what we're having and also using it in real time data to support where we have inefficiency, where we need some more support and so forth. So yeah, using that AI prompting and the skills, digital skills to get to show impact is going to be kind of areas I'm using it for as well.
Dan Freehling (43:50):
It's I think, again, really helpful to have people have a really tangible sense of what this is looking like and where you're experimenting with it and starting to use it more. So thanks for sharing that Jack. So for cover letters, any thoughts on from your perspective, what do you see as the utility of a cover letter? What do you look for? What do you'd recommend to people?
Jack Jarrett (44:08):
Cover letters. It's always been one that I get questions about, should I write a cover letter, should I not write a cover letter? But when writing a traditional cover letter, my response is always to treat it as a narrative bridge. So connect your story to the organization's mission and avoid repeating the resume. So focus on motivation, alignment and value add to that organization and customizing it. So a tailored specific cover stands out more than a perfectly written generic one, and I always answer why this role, why this organization and why now? So those are the key areas or the key, the three why's that you should be answering if you're using a cover letter. But I actually encourage those I work with to include those. You've worked to include a key skills assessment grid in your application. So this is essentially a table with the key requirements on the left, so the key requirements in the job description on the left and on the right hand side details on exactly how you meet or exceed those requirements and they're looking for.
(45:05):
So that makes it really clear to recruiters and hiring team members to see exactly how you meet the criteria and given how many applications we see coming through at the moment, I think having that helps to make a candidate really stand out. I think recruiters, I've seen different stats in this, can spend between 10 seconds to two minutes looking at one application. So making it really, really clear for a key skills assessment grid, these are the kind of key skills you're looking for on the right hand side, this is how I meet that criteria and indeed exceed it as well. I think that's a really useful tool and when I've seen it come through a few times, I'm always like, wow, this candidate is really focused on showing us as an organization why they meet all the criteria and should go forward to the next steps.
Dan Freehling (45:50):
Such a great tip for people. And I've seen a recent example of that with a client where they did that and I was looking at it, I was like, wow, that was actually really strong and makes a lot of sense there and paired with all of the questions that you said before, the three why's of your personal motivation for this and how you're looking to add value to the organization and then this skills grid can be a really powerful combination.
Jack Jarrett (46:14):
Absolutely, and it's emphasizing that the candidates put a lot of time and effort in to make sure they understand what an organization want, what they want, and how they can contribute to that as well. And again, if you can, it's including those quantifiable impact pieces or just those qualitative side as well. So quality of successes as we were speaking to before, really putting that in there as well. So not just saying, yeah, five years experience as project manager saying five years, yes, I've got five years experience with project manager, but really detailing that saying two years at this management, so project manager managing these types of projects, these were the key kind of successes. And doing that for each position just really, really highlights how you have that experience and quite often it gives the hiring team all the information that they would want to get from an interview in some cases and draw out in an interview straight away. So it really kind of speeds you up in that recruitment process. You provided so much information that's relevant and it really highlights that you're interested in the role and want to work with the organization as well. And this isn't just an application of a hundred that are going through in terms of how perhaps an employer may feel if they get a really generic CV and application come through.
Dan Freehling (47:21):
Yeah, what do you mean by the
Dan Freehling (47:23):
Why now?
Jack Jarrett (47:23):
Yeah, no, that's a really good one. So quite often in interviews and so forth, we say, why are you looking for a new role now? And it's really kind of emphasizing, say for instance the candidates like, I've been mocking at this organization three years, learned all the skills and I'm really keen to apply it to this organization, et cetera, and or built up all these skills and I'm ready for my next change of this X, Y, Z. It's really emphasizing why this is the perfect opportunity for you now to move to that organization as well. Whether it's because you feel that you've got all the key skill sets and this is a great opportunity, or whether it's you feel like I've reached the limit of what I can achieve here and I want to apply my experience to support your organizational goals, but it will be very different and very personal. But just providing that context and background is always really useful to understand the motivations of a candidate as well.
Dan Freehling (48:13):
Again, just such great advice for people to follow in terms of crafting cover letters that really showcase that and help the other side really understand why this is hyper relevant for you and why they should care about your application there. Yeah, absolutely. Jack, what books, or it doesn't necessarily have to be books, any resources of any medium do you find yourself recommending the most to job seekers? People thinking about career or anything like that?
Jack Jarrett (48:38):
I think if you're a job seeker or are you thinking about a career change? There were a couple of books I always recommend. So first up is Designing Your Life by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. So they're Stanford professors who apply design thinking to careers and it's all about getting unstuck, testing out different career directions and building a life and job that really works for you. I think for me, I think it's super practical and especially if you're not quite sure what the next step is. And another great one on that is The Squiggly Career by Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis. This book really feels relevant now because careers aren't linear and this gives you tools to navigate, change, identify your strengths and grow your confidence. It's like a career toolkit for the modern world really, to be honest. And they also do a great podcast as well that I would recommend listening to because I think quite often you can feel like I've done my master's degree, I've worked in this organization management level and now I've been made redundant and I dunno where to go next. It really emphasizes that career isn't linear, this could be very squiggly and that is similar to life. So I found that really useful as well. And then if you're in leadership or stepping into one Dare to Lead by Brene Brown is a must read. It's all about leading with courage and vulnerability, being open human and real with the team. I think when I read it, it really changed how I think about leadership. So there are some key ones that I've been listening to at the moment, the whole reading I should say. Listen,
Dan Freehling (50:03):
Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, we definitely double down on the designing Your Life and Dare to Lead recommendations and I have not heard of The Squiggly Career as well that I'm very excited to dive into that as well. So thanks for sharing that.
Jack Jarrett (50:15):
No worries. They're great. Helen and Sarah are really good and I think it's a really good time for people in this sector to be listening to that as well. But I also follow Harvard Business Review, McKinsey people analytics content and for social impact, Stanford Social Innovation Review. I find those things are really useful just to read it every now and again to give me a little bit more perspective as well,
Dan Freehling (50:35):
So right for the moment. And then this broader business and strategic thinking as well. Yeah, that's been a big thing I've been recommending to people is, especially at this moment for the sector, is going beyond the kind of echo chamber bubble of things that are explicitly designed for nonprofits or INGOs and getting into all kinds of different resources on career and on leadership and really bringing those into play.
Jack Jarrett (51:00):
A hundred percent. Wow. Exactly. You're totally right. I think you've almost become a bit of an echo chamber just hearing the same things, but to hear different perspectives on, it's always great, and I totally agree with that, Dan.
Dan Freehling (51:09):
So Jack, thanks so much for joining us and sharing your expertise with listeners. If people want to follow along with you, learn more about your work, how can they go about doing that?
Jack Jarrett (51:17):
Yeah, of course. So people are keen to get in contact. So listeners can connect with me on LinkedIn, Jack Jarrett and Jack, and then J-A-R-R-E-T-T. And I often share insights and talent equity and the evolving world of work. And I'm conscious this is a real tough time for the sector, so I do get a lot of messages saying, what would you advise or Can you look at my resume, et cetera. And I'll always do my best to respond as well because I've got really try to have a gift mentality, particularly at the moment as well. So always keen to touch base or even just chat about the way the world is at the moment as well. It's always cool to get different perspectives from different people.
Dan Freehling (51:52):
The generosity is really coming through and I would highly encourage people to take Jack up on this and you, you're seeing this gift first mentality and action here. And this is how we get connected too, is if we've come across each other on LinkedIn and saw some of what each other had created and then this is how these kinds of things happen. So would highly encourage that for people.
Jack Jarrett (52:11):
Absolutely. And I've been really enjoying going through your podcasts and as well, I'm just listening to the different perspectives and so forth as well. They've been really useful for owning, thinking about careers, but also how I think about different situations and stuff like that. It's been really, really useful. So thanks for having me on and I was really privileged to be part of all the great speakers you've had before.
Dan Freehling (52:33):
I'm so glad to hear that Jack, and it means a lot. And thanks again so much for taking the time to come on and share your insights with folks, so really appreciate it.
Dan Freehling (52:40):
Thanks, Jack.
Dan Freehling (52:40):
Alright, take care.
Dan Freehling (52:42):
Hey everyone, I hope you got a lot out of that episode and if you did, if you could please share it with someone who might find it valuable and take a second to leave a quick review on whatever podcast app you're using. Even just the stars is great. It goes a long way and helping others to discover the show. And if you liked this episode, check out a previous episode with Dan Perez on executive search, career psychology and why generalists don't get hired. Here's a clip from it.
Dan Perez (53:05):
We live right now in a world of amazing opportunities and almost endless opportunities out there. I mean, between LinkedIn and job boards and so many other resources, we have countless opportunities to find great organizations, understand different potential career paths. And what's interesting is that we think that should make things better. But what actually turns out to happen is that we get super anxious, we get overwhelmed, and it's like why? You hear these stories out there of people applying to hundreds of jobs and then just getting frustrated and burnt out because they think that with all of this choice that things will be easier, but it's actually very overwhelming. There's a famous experiment around the paradox of choice involving jam in a supermarket and that basically researchers would give people 20 plus choices of jam to buy, or they would give them four or five, and you think the people that had more options for jam would be better off.
(54:14):
But no, it turns out that that number just overwhelms people. And so they don't end up buying jam. They're unhappy with their choice and compared to the people that have just a few options and they end up more likely to buy jam and they're happier with their choice. And so what I really like to coach people on is that you've really got to start narrowing down your options. Really start being super selective about what you focus on in your job search. Really only engage with two to three open applications at a time. Really make sure that those are the highest quality, best fit for you. Don't just fire off your cv. Two hundreds of roles. I mean, if you're applying to that many, you've got to be more focused. You've got to be more specialized. Because it gets down to that idea is that if you are applicable to these hundreds of jobs, then there's probably probably not applicable to any of them because you're not thinking clearly about the things you want, you're not prioritizing enough. So I really urge people I partner with to focus on that, be very selective, really narrow down. And so they can really limit the paradox of choice. And you think that might be cutting yourself off from opportunities, but as people start to narrow down, what they realize is that there's huge arrays of opportunities within those very select things that they prioritize. So it really helps them move forward in their job search in a very mindful and thoughtful way, and they start to get better results.
